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  1. #81
    Threadworm Dragonfist's Avatar

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    If this goes through, the skullcutter+vow combo will be amazing. Lets do it.

    Also Dooby, I know that you want to prevent uberchaining with the ubersaw, but don't you think that 5 seconds might be a bit too much? If my math is correct, then that would leave them with only 4 seconds of uber with the stock. I think that reducing the amount gained on hit might be a better alternative. That way, roaming ubersaw medics are nerfed but the pocket medics that use this are hurt less.
    Last edited by Dragonfist; 01-04-2018 at 09:17 AM.


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  2. #82
    Regular Dooby Skoo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfist View Post
    Also Dooby, I know that you want to prevent uberchaining with the ubersaw, but don't you think that 5 seconds might be a bit too much? If my math is correct, then that would leave them with only 4 seconds of uber with the stock. I think that reducing the amount gained on hit might be a better alternative. That way, roaming ubersaw medics are nerfed but the pocket medics that use this are hurt less.
    Thank you for your feedback.

    With the stock MediGun the uber duration is increased by two seconds, putting it at a 10 second duration. When combined with the -5 seconds of the Ubersaw, the duration of the charge is five seconds. When it comes to nerfing the Ubersaw, there are two main roads you can go down. This weapon is a risk & reward weapon, and I felt the amount of risk a medic had to take was too low for the amount of reward received. I could have either increased the risk needed to get the 95% uber, or reduce the reward to fit the risk.

    If you choose the Ubersaw as your melee weapon, you are committing to the play style of getting Uber with the saw. If you do not want to be getting Uber with the saw, it is better to choose another melee weapon.

  3. #83
    Threadworm Dragonfist's Avatar

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    ohhh, I thought it was only 1 second. Ye das fair.

    But how about that Solemn Vow idea? Hightower skullcutter would be even more stupid.
    ​Give in to the dark side


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  4. #84
    Forum Babus

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    After a few months of playtime on 10x Mayhem, I have found the experience highly enjoyable and rewarding. I have recently enjoyed the balance changes carried out by Dooby Skoo. Many of these changes have brought balance to Mayhem, post- Jungle Inferno. That being said, I have come to fear one singular moment on 10x Mayhem. This has been highlighted in an experience that I had today. This is not the only occurrence of this problem, but I feel it to be a prime example. Today, I played a match with only 6-8 players on pl_borneo. It was going well with general enjoyment by both sides. This was until about midway into one of the rounds, a defending player who was lacking in experience, decided to become an Engineer. I knew he was inexperienced by his sentry placement and his statements on how many wrenches he owned and how many hours he had in the game. One would expect in a game that experience and skills would correlate to the impact that someone would have on a game. In this instance, the engineer who lacked much experience, changed the entire focus of the game. By simply building a Level 3 sentry along the cart's path, the Engineer's nest became the mission of the entire BLU team. The game shifted from being a battle of the payload that was swinging between both sides rather equally into a slog for BLU team. Assuming that the rest of RED team did not exist, it would have been an utter cake-walk to eliminate the sentry nest. However, each time we attacked the Sentry nest, we would also get picked off by the RED players. Obviously, the objective of RED team was to defend their nest, but due to the one-sidedness of quite a few anti-engineer loadouts, and the overall focus on the sentry itself, the game devolved into an assault on an entrenched position not too dissimilar to the Western front.

    I would like to take a moment to describe what I call the nesting "snowball". In a game with an objective that has to defended by one team and taken, or pushed by the other team, a series of events generally occur when an engie builds a nest. Firstly, the nest is usually complete or near complete before the BLU team encounters it. Secondly, upon encountering a nest, the a large portion of the team will quickly fall to it due to its rapid and surprising deployment. Thirdly, the majority of BLU team quickly moves to use the aforementioned one-sided weapons, such as the fists of steel, to counter the Nest. Finally, once they engage the nest, BLU team is either quickly able to defeat and flips off to the old loadout in order to fight the rest of RED team on equal terms, or RED team supports the Engie base to the point that it now becomes the singular objective of either team.

    In the former case, the Engie can rapidly rebuild a nest somewhere else after most of BLU team has flipped off of anti-engineer weapons. Now the same event occurs over again. THIS is a major issue as the pacing of the game for BLU team is interrupted as they loss a large percentage of their team rapidly and now need to break out of playing the game to reset their loadouts and co-ordinate an attack on a sentry nest. All the while, they are once again picked off by a RED team that totally outclasses their loadouts.

    In the latter case, both teams will initiate a cycle of each team respawning in waves opposite to each other. During the RED end of the cycle, most of BLU team is wiped out with help from the nest. During the BLU end of the cycle, efforts are concentrated on defeating the Nest itself. This makes perfect sense. However, even if BLU team successfully defeats the Nest, RED team will still surge in its cycle and kill off the now ill-equipped BLU team. Here is the problem, the Engie is capable of rebuilding almost all of his nest before the BLU team comes back. This is a problem because BLU has already flipped back to loadouts that better suit directly combating RED team. Now the BLU team is back at square 1. This eliminates any feeling of reward BLU might have received from destroying the nest. This can make the game truly difficult for the BLU team to continue to want to play the game.

    The Crux of the problem is that a Sentry Nest requires an effort by nearly all of BLU team to destroy without the interference of RED team.

    I am not a balance guru. I am not going to list off what exactly needs to be down to what classes or weapons. But I am strongly suggesting the the Engie's build rate be reduced across the board. Whether that is by reducing how quickly an engineer can build or upgrade directly, or by reintroducing one of the engineers greatest challenges in vanilla, the necessity to ration your scarce metal supply.

    I would really like to encourage further debate on the matter as I know several community members who have taken issue with the state of the engineer in the past.

  5. #85
    Threadworm Dragonfist's Avatar

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    Don't take this the wrong way but...
    TL: DR: A small game of Payload (Borneo) was going great until one Red (probably new) player switched to engie. Blu was stopped completely in their tracks. Blu simply didn't have enough firepower to take out the sentry, as they either had to go anti-building or anti-player. What was a fun, balanced game turned into a grueling, time wasting slog for Blu team. Point being is that engie should take a nerf to his ability to rebuild/upgrade so quickly (by making metal management more important).

    My own advice is that if you get into a situation like that, try to use classes like the Loch N Load demo, stock RL soldier, or the Homewrecker pyro. My own personal favorite for this is Loch N Load, Tide Turner, and melee of your choice. You can still kill players relatively easily as well as sentries. 2 shots will kill a level 3 sentry, assuming its not Wrangled. If it's around a corner, you can peek it quickly, fire once, then get back to cover. Repeat this until it is dead.
    Last edited by Dragonfist; 01-07-2018 at 10:20 AM.


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  6. #86
    At some point in the last 2 years, the southern hospitality lost its swing speed nerf, which really needs to be back.

  7. #87
    Forum Babus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfist View Post
    Don't take this the wrong way but...
    TL: DR: A small game of Payload (Borneo) was going great until one Red (probably new) player switched to engie. Blu was stopped completely in their tracks. Blu simply didn't have enough firepower to take out the sentry, as they either had to go anti-building or anti-player. What was a fun, balanced game turned into a grueling, time wasting slog for Blu team. Point being is that engie should take a nerf to his ability to rebuild/upgrade so quickly (by making metal management more important).

    My own advice is that if you get into a situation like that, try to use classes like the Loch N Load demo, stock RL soldier, or the Homewrecker pyro. My own personal favorite for this is Loch N Load, Tide Turner, and melee of your choice. You can still kill players relatively easily as well as sentries. 2 shots will kill a level 3 sentry, assuming its not Wrangled. If it's around a corner, you can peek it quickly, fire once, then get back to cover. Repeat this until it is dead.
    This is good advice, however, I would like to add that a sentry that is wrangled could make the job more difficult, as was the case in this match, or if the engie has the hard counter to both soldier and demo in the short circuit.

    I dislike the short circuit more in this case as you can block all the damage and the sentry gun gets a health increase allowing it to withstand one standard rocket and a whole loch n load clip. I recommend that Engie get a metal nerf. This can prevent him from continuing to use the short circuit indefinitely and can prevent him from rebuilding his base as quickly. My primary struggle on this borneo map was not so much destroying the sentry as it was trying to prevent the engie from building it again. Usually the nest would weaken me and then I would get killed by the other team. By the time I got back to the area, the Engineer had already rebuilt a lvl. 3 sentry, lvl. 3 dispenser, and had almost completed upgrading his teleporter.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Alleyman588 View Post
    I recommend that Engie get a metal nerf. This can prevent him from continuing to use the short circuit indefinitely and can prevent him from rebuilding his base as quickly.
    Only the secondary fire will actually destroy projectiles, and requires proper timing to be of any use as it only fires twice a second. Not to mention that the engi is likely to get shot by his own sentry if not careful. Also, the stock rocket easily one shots sentries at close range due to damage ramp (450 base with up to +50% (670) at point blank), and the health increase from the Short Circuit does allow sentries to take a second Loch-n-Load round if not paired with the Jag or Gunslinger, but just barely as the health increase to buildings is almost entirely on the wrench. However, due to the massive increase in projectile speed and damage on both the Loch-n-Load and Direct hit, their explosives are practically impossible to successfully intercept with anything but the stock flamethower's airblast which is very rapid fire. The Iron Bomber can also bypass the Short Circuit somewhat as it has a 30% increase in fire rate, along with no damage penalty on timer detonation (unlike all vanilla GLs), in addition to them not bouncing or rolling, allowing for you to simply spam them right next to the sentry while around a corner. Other choices for sentry destruction are the Homewrecker with it's massive reduction in push force and damage from sentries while it's active combined with it's ability to one shot buildings even when wrangled, and the Cow Mangler which has a massive fire rate and damage vs buildings at a cost of half damage to player, along with the charged shot not slowing you down.

    For the most part, engi's (or at least according to me) only really use the Short Circuit to overcome the fact that sentries can't dodge the slow but deadly stock rockets, and the wrangler is primarily used by Jag engi's to be complete @$$holes. Otherwise the pistol is preferred as it's quite potent at short to medium range.

  9. #89
    Because valve ruined how airblast was supposed to work, would there be a way to fix that on this server? Im not sure how the stats are applied but I understand you can add a velocity on hit, which could be applied to the airblast mechanic. On airblast, apply some Y velocity and some Z velocity (or just Z since the lateral direction should be taken care of) and then we have our old wombo combo back.

    According to this reddit thread, it's a config setting: https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comment...ble_to_revert/

    tf_airblast_cray 0/1

    Seems to be the same answer everywhere else too

    https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=302819
    Last edited by Dr. Carrot; 01-11-2018 at 10:11 AM.

  10. #90
    Anyone else think the Heatmaker needs it's firerate bonus decreased a bit or the Kukri needs it's jump height bonus changed to be ony when the weapon is active? The reason I ask is because combined with the Danger Shield it basically makes you a 300 health scout with a Winger that has perfect accuracy and no damage falloff.

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