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  1. #581
    Post Maestro Dragonfist's Avatar

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    Yeah, we will just have to wait and see. With luck, Mayhem & Freak wont be down for long.
    I wouldn't worry about it too much.


    Hey! Hey you! If you're working on a project, and you want help, message me! Don't be shy! I'm the guy to ask!

  2. #582
    The Hot Hand:
    +50% Draw speed
    On hit: User gains a speed boost
    +20% Melee range

    The purpose of this is to be an escape weapon for pyro. The draw speed is so you can smack the Hale for a quick getaway. There really isn't much else to say I think, since all the stats are pretty self-explanatory.

    Another potential set of stats:

    The Hot Hand:
    +75% Attack Speed
    On hit: User gains a speed boost
    +10% Move speed when active

    -25% Damage penalty
    -75% Primary ammo
    -75% Secondary ammo


    Pretty much an eviction notice for pyro. Plus it'd be funny to see all the slaps show up in the kill feed. Until the Pyro gets killed by a random crit, that is.

    Last idea:

    The Hot Hand:
    +85% Attack speed
    +900% Melee range
    On hit: User gains a speed boost
    On hit ally: boosts both players' speed

    -99% Damage penalty

    Okay maybe I just really want to see the kill feed full of slaps. Who doesn't? (Don't answer that)
    Last edited by Nope Le Engineer; 10-22-2017 at 12:37 PM.
    I'm really trying not to be obnoxious

    it's not working

  3. #583
    I say we shouldn't make the Hot Hand anything other than an already available pyro melee, along with the dragon fury, gas passer, and the thermal thruster, unless the items become a common find. It's not a very good idea to force users out of the server just to get an item that is more useful than any other items in the already available set. This includes the banana peel for heavy.

    That's why I say we should a. fix them to where they have nothing abusable (gas passer afterburn effects, dragon fury constant airblast) b. give them the stats of another weapon in slot for pyro (or heavy), c. memeify or guarantee they are not better alternatives to anything in slot.

    Another arguing point is that a small percentage of players cannot play casual for a number of reasons (unexplainable lag, cannot outperform other players, etc) and it's very hard to justify that some set of players can't have a weapon because they are not skilled enough or have performance issues on casual that occur nowhere else.
    Last edited by Joe Biden; 10-28-2017 at 02:52 PM.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Biden View Post
    I say we shouldn't make the Hot Hand anything other than an already available pyro melee, along with the dragon fury, gas passer, and the thermal thruster, unless the items become a common find. It's not a very good idea to force users out of the server just to get an item that is more useful than any other items in the already available set. This includes the banana peel for heavy.

    That's why I say we should a. leave them all like they are (albeit the thermal thruster, dragon fury(for airblast), and if the gas passer has effect on hales, it aswell), b. give them the stats of another weapon in slot for pyro (or heavy), c. memeify or guarantee they are not better alternatives to anything in slot.

    Another arguing point is that a small percentage of players cannot play casual for a number of reasons (unexplainable lag, cannot outperform other players, etc) and it's very hard to justify that some set of players can't have a weapon because they are not skilled enough or have performance issues on casual that occur nowhere else.
    You're looking into it too much. The contracts are fairly simple for the most part, and queuing up with a few friends makes them go even quicker. Besides, none of these stats are "superior" to other unlock able weapons. The Powerjack gives the pyro +100 hp, hp on hit, and a passive 17% move speed bonus. It has no downsides as a passive utility weapon, and pyro still has a decent selection of damage-dealing weapons for his primary and secondary slots that are complimented nicely by the Powerjack. The stock fire axe gives pyro a nice ammo boost for primaries and secondaries, making it useful for shotgun and flare pyros, and air blasting with the Degreaser is no longer as impactful on Pyro's ammo. The Backscratcher gives good damage and a lot of bonus health from health kits.

    If we made this weapon stronger than other unlockables, without nerfing said unlockables, it wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily. The others would be just as effective as they currently are, and there'd be less people than usual equipping the "strongest pyro melee in the server", which quite frankly doesn't seem detrimental to me at all. You don't even need to complete the Hot Hand contract to get it, since when you activate the contract you get a trial Hot Hand to use. As long as you don't deactivate the contract, it stays with you. I used the Dragon's Fury this way in a community mvm server for an hour the other day, without having any points for the contract. So players who've done the first 3 contracts and gotten the stars can probably use the Hot Hand (those first 3 frankly aren't much of a challenge if you queue up with 2 or more buddies).

    The 1st Hot Hand stats I suggested are intended to be used as a quick getaway weapon, you can draw it quickly and hit the hale for a speed boost to get away. It has low damage compared to other weapons, it has no health boost or health on hit, but it'll get you away quicker than backpedaling than the Powerjack.

    The 2nd Hot Hand idea turns it into pyro's eviction notice. It's just a fun weapon that does adequate damage with the risk of getting close to the Hale. If players really wanted to use it, but don't have it, they could play heavy w/ the Huo-Long, Buffalo steak, and Eviction notice. If the mobility is too good (Degreaser 20% + Hot Hand 10% + Hot Hand speed boost = 65% Move speed bonus) Then we can remove the speed boost on hit and just give it a slightly higher active speed boost, like 15%. The Ammo penalties are in place to encourage pyros using it to go all-out as a melee class, with the Degreaser & Scorch shot.

    The last idea for The Hot Hand's stats on Freak is supposed to be a disciplinary action for pyro. Of course, it's not terribly unique, but maybe some people want to have the disciplinary action and not be restricted to rockets and bullets? Anyways, it's a much better "team-player" weapon for the pyro. It's not terribly strong and we could consider adding some kind of damage vulnerability while active if the pyro is too mobile with it. Same goes for the other two ideas as well.

    The only problem I can see is that the ideas I suggested aren't terribly creative or new, which is okay. I'm still thinking of one or two more that aren't seen in any other weapon on the server currently.
    I'm really trying not to be obnoxious

    it's not working

  5. #585
    issues that several people have found:
    - Sandman sucks due to getting its stun removed. Bonk Boy and Fem Scout are kinda crippled.
    - Ambassador headshots are worse due to damage falloff.
    - Stock Cleaver is apparently pretty bad due to changes.

  6. #586
    Forum Babus __________/Scrap.tf's Avatar

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    Wow I remember Factoryhell being my first saxton hale map!

    So you know how !ff2boss (Choose your boss or hale command) is removed right? Due to the fact people would play the same hales over and over (Gabe, Bill, F2P Soldier, and F2P Demoman,)

    I think you should bring back the command, (but if guys can make it so that you can only choose that hale once per map) (So your forced to play that other hales than just one)
    Last edited by __________/Scrap.tf; 11-05-2017 at 10:14 AM.

  7. #587
    I just wanted to point out that snake's melee does only 180 now, instead of 210. Unless of course that's intended, in which case makes him at a huge disadvantage.

    Edit:. I apologize for the previous version of this post, it was inaccurate and rash. Hopped on via mobile to edit, so I'll clarify at a later date.
    Last edited by Joe Biden; 11-13-2017 at 10:51 PM.

  8. #588
    Snake one-shots about 1/3 the classes (considering every class has a weapon that increases health, many will have 200 or more), so that's not bad.
    his rage is still fairly good. the grenade launcher is good for crowds at the beginning of the round when players clump together, and the gun is good for getting away from a ushered heavy, or for picking off scouts.

    on top of that, snake is meant to be played stealthily. he has the YER for a reason. Any adequate player can pick off up to 1/3 or 1/4 of the players before he/she's forced to fight them head on, and even then, there's always going to be that one scout or engine who's alone on the opposite side of the map. In a head-on fight vs a large crowd of enemies, snake's melee isn't ideal. but that's fine since it isn't necessarily the ideal play-style for snake. He's supposed to be sneaky and pick off a good portion of the players first, then use his grenade launcher to clear out the crowds, then finish up with his revolver. the knife should still do fairly well with only 180 damage, if you're not running blindly through a crowd; instead fighting a few players on the cap point, for example.

    my point is, snake is not awful with 180 melee damage, he just requires a bit more thinking and smart positioning when playing, instead of w+m1-style fighting like some other hales.
    I'm really trying not to be obnoxious

    it's not working

  9. #589
    When the rest of the bosses require less skill and can rush players compared to Snake, it seems unfair. I just ask he either gets greatly increased knockback resistance or his knife damage is restored. Not all teams give the opportunity to pick off players, leaving Snake at a huge disadvantage when he has to tank the whole team gathered in a general proximity. Sure, he can blind or get a grenade launcher, but that only does so much when you have intense knockback outside of Uber and disguise, making it near impossible to score out. I'm replying from mobile so I'll tighten this point when I'm able to. Also, again I apologize for that last post, it was heat of the moment and I never fixed what was wrong of me to say.

  10. #590
    I agree with you that Snake needs increased knock back resistance. I think that all Hales should get at least 60-75%, since it can be ridiculous trying to kill someone when you're in a crowd of 10-15 players and everyone is shooting you. 30% feels like nothing. The knife damage won't help a whole lot, since the only class it'll start killing more is soldiers (Soldiers typically have their base 200 health, unless using stock rock, bison, or black box). Everything else generally has either much more than 200, or less than 180 anyways. I'm just saying that restoring the knife damage would not amount to a whole lot of change. Knockback resist (which we can change) and smarter playing (which we cannot change, sadly) are what will make the real difference.

    I appreciate you bringing up the topic anyways, since I did not notice Snake's damage change (haven't played him in weeks).
    I'm really trying not to be obnoxious

    it's not working

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