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  1. #1
    Forum Fanatic Wizard Santa's Avatar

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    I'm typically on the Freak Servers, and I stumbled across the freedom staff during Black Mesa. Now, here's my issue: Although I suppose the knockback is fine and all, but when several people are using it at once standing a fair distance away, it's very ridiculous. This staff makes the airblast from pyro even less viable (as it also does miniscule damage, but damage nevertheless) and does almost nothing to contribute except camp in spots and use the staff for environmental kills. For worse, its almost allclass viable! SwitchView was on I believe during this time and told that a nerf was going to be placed, but I do want to say this: If there is a rework for it on Mayhem, I'd suggest removing the range and slight damage and leave it for a knockback purpose. It was very annoying to walk into mayhem after a long time and see that a quarter of the team would be doing ridiculous environmental kills without a way of reaching them. I do love mayhem and freak, but please, let's keep all the crazy bananas for the monkeys. Pretty Please??
    "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."


  2. #2
    Forum Carry SwitchView's Avatar

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    After all the complaining and whining about it I GUESS we'll have to nerf it.

    I personally don't like the idea of nerfing it's range, as that decreases its purpose. The point is to drag enemies from afar toward you, if we reduce the range, then your mostly just wacking them slightly closer.

    How do you feel if we drastically increase the damage penalty instead? Say up to 70% or 80%? Maybe even 90%?

    20,000 ​Player Teleports and rising!

  3. #3
    Post Maestro Dr. Cheech's Avatar

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    He said "environmental kills." Reducing the damage won't do anything for that. I have not returned to the Mayhem server simply because of how obnoxious that weapon is. It's one thing as a joke on degroot keep, but another to apply such a tumor of a weapon into actual game play. Please find stats for it that aren't designed for admin abuse(normally). It was funny in theory, but it never should have gotten past that point, not even as a joke. And yes, I realize it's different from your meme staff on degroot keep, but any melee with high range(comparable to the stock scatter gun) should not exist if you intend on keeping any serious form of game play.

    Remove the knock back or the range. It's a poor joke that needs to end.
    Last edited by Dr. Cheech; 02-17-2017 at 11:03 PM.
    In the end, the Duck Hunt Dog always gets the last laugh... whether or not you shot the damn duck.

  4. #4
    Post Maestro Google327's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard Santa View Post
    I'm typically on the Freak Servers, and I stumbled across the freedom staff during Black Mesa. Now, here's my issue: Although I suppose the knockback is fine and all, but when several people are using it at once standing a fair distance away, it's very ridiculous. This staff makes the airblast from pyro even less viable (as it also does miniscule damage, but damage nevertheless) and does almost nothing to contribute except camp in spots and use the staff for environmental kills. For worse, its almost allclass viable! SwitchView was on I believe during this time and told that a nerf was going to be placed, but I do want to say this: If there is a rework for it on Mayhem, I'd suggest removing the range and slight damage and leave it for a knockback purpose. It was very annoying to walk into mayhem after a long time and see that a quarter of the team would be doing ridiculous environmental kills without a way of reaching them. I do love mayhem and freak, but please, let's keep all the crazy bananas for the monkeys. Pretty Please??

    The pull, rather than knockback in addition to it's range, is what makes this weapon unique. If it simply knocked players back, then I would have never added stats to it, as it would be incredibly overpowered. This weapon pulls the enemy towards you, to point blank range on hit. This means that you have to deal with the enemy up close and personal. As such, I don't quite understand the logic behind your statement that you can't reach players using this weapon.

    I am working on a slight adjustment to the stats, but it will not be receiving a lobotomy.

  5. #5
    Regular Krer Kruger's Avatar

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    Honestly, i would just turn down the swingspeed on it so that you cant make people fly. Makes it pair well with shotguns since you reel people in, then blam them with many pellets
    If it is not eaten yet, it soon will be!

  6. #6
    Post Maestro Google327's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krer Kruger View Post
    Makes it pair well with shotguns since you reel people in, then blam them with many pellets
    Exactly, the point of this weapon is to allow for "juking". You pull an enemy player in close, then hit them at point blank range, for example, with the Force of Nature, the Family Business, or any other close range weapon.

  7. #7
    Forum Carry SwitchView's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheech View Post
    He said "environmental kills." Reducing the damage won't do anything for that. I have not returned to the Mayhem server simply because of how cancerous that weapon sounds. It's one thing as a joke on degroot keep, but another to apply such a tumor of a weapon into actual game play. Please find stats for it that aren't designed for admin abuse(normally). It was funny in theory, but it never should have gotten past that point, not even as a joke. And yes, I realize it's different from your meme staff on degroot keep, but any melee with high range(comparable to the stock scatter gun) should not exist if you intend on keeping any serious form of game play.

    Remove the knock back or the range. It's a poor joke that needs to end.
    You seem to be under the impression that the Staff is like the admin weapon I sometimes goof around with, this is not even remotely the case. The admin weapon can target people on the other side of the map and instantly kills them. I wasn't even the one to add this admin weapon, Champ was, and we would never actually implement it for others to use.

    Not to be rude but I don't think your opinion is valid if you haven't even used the weapon. Simply hearing about it or the idea behind it is one thing, using it is completely another. You don't even seem to know what it actually does, and you just assume it was designed originally as admin abuse.

    The point of the weapon is to take players that are a bit out of range and bring them close to you, which is exactly what it does. We tried to add something new and unique, a different play style to give to players. In this case, dragging them toward you, or dragging players into environment hazzards.

    I personally don't think it needs to be changed at all, and have contemplated refusing making any changes to it at all, but Im more inclined to listen to the community. Right now Google and I are contemplating some changes to it, but have not decided on anything yet. We may reduce fire rate or damage, but we will not be reducing the melee range on it.

    20,000 ​Player Teleports and rising!

  8. #8
    Post Maestro Dr. Cheech's Avatar

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    I'm well aware of how it works. It's like a vacuum/reverse air blast that 7 classes can use. We can join the server, spam the crap out of it on people jumping around and use hitscan like the Force-a-Nature or reserve shooter to repeatedly destroy people until they rage quit.

    I've seen it in action, I just don't play against it because I enjoy jumping around the server which is exactly what this ruins. It discourages people from using weapons such as the rocket jumper since they have trouble responding in a way that will kill the player(I'm aware we have people who can kill these guys, but they are not using the same loadouts).

    If you want to readjust it to be more tolerable, a -200% fire rate(or even slower) would help if paired with a faster swap speed. That way it punishes a miss instead of "well, it's time to W+M1 until I pull something in."

    And it leans towards abuse weapon because of it's range. I'm thinking of this mainly on maps with cliffs and whatnot, such as upward. You can jump next to an edge and spam it on someone until they get close and just move as they go flying off the edge.

    And I'm gonna make the comparison, buff the phlog if weapons like this exist. I get that people hate pyro(especially amongst leadership(if you don't, I'm not talking about you)), but you have a weapon that gives 7 classes something they didn't have before, why not give pyro the ability to pull someone in and activate Mmmph? +200% taunt speed, damage reduction, health refill and there you go. A weapon on par with what you created. Maybe reduce the damage by 40% to justify giving it insane stats.
    In the end, the Duck Hunt Dog always gets the last laugh... whether or not you shot the damn duck.

  9. #9
    Post Maestro Google327's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheech View Post
    I'm well aware of how it works. It's like a vacuum/reverse air blast that 7 classes can use. We can join the server, spam the crap out of it on people jumping around and use hitscan like the Force-a-Nature or reserve shooter to repeatedly destroy people until they rage quit.

    I've seen it in action, I just don't play against it because I enjoy jumping around the server which is exactly what this ruins. It discourages people from using weapons such as the rocket jumper since they have trouble responding in a way that will kill the player(I'm aware we have people who can kill these guys, but they are not using the same loadouts).

    If you want to readjust it to be more tolerable, a -200% fire rate(or even slower) would help if paired with a faster swap speed. That way it punishes a miss instead of "well, it's time to W+M1 until I pull something in."

    And it leans towards abuse weapon because of it's range. I'm thinking of this mainly on maps with cliffs and whatnot, such as upward. You can jump next to an edge and spam it on someone until they get close and just move as they go flying off the edge.

    And I'm gonna make the comparison, buff the phlog if weapons like this exist. I get that people hate pyro(especially amongst leadership(if you don't, I'm not talking about you)), but you have a weapon that gives 7 classes something they didn't have before, why not give pyro the ability to pull someone in and activate Mmmph? +200% taunt speed, damage reduction, health refill and there you go. A weapon on par with what you created. Maybe reduce the damage by 40% to justify giving it insane stats.
    In regards to the cliff comments, the same can be said about the backburner airblast, the FaN, and any weapon with knockback.

    I actually don't mind the phlog, which is why I sped up the taunt speed enough that the pyro has about 2 seconds of uber after activating the crits, which now is virtually instant. In regards to a flamethrower pulling people in, that's actually something I've been testing lately. I have a couple ideas that I'm currently floating around for a new flamethrower though.

  10. #10
    It does no damage or negative damage to the player (can you heal an enemy with negative damage?)
    Swing speed reduced
    Scouts cant use it
    It shoots people upwards instead
    0 damage but +50% fire rate

    just ideas

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