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  1. #21
    Forum Carry JimOfRicefields's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirLolleth View Post
    I believe that this new market gardener needs a nerf. As it stands now, it does 1400 on a non crit. Even with the slower swing speed, the high damage and refilling all of your health on a hit is causing even melee only loadouts to use the market gardener. I know that the plugin isn't working as intended, but I don't think that the damage bonus is justified. If you were using the market gardener correctly, then the damage bonus would not be needed as it would do the same damage regardless. I think that we should possibly remove the plugin and reduce the damage. If we do not remove the plugin, then I say that we should still reduce the damage because I think that the market gardener should not be used for a melee loadout that doesn't intend on rocket jumping to actually use the market gardener as intended.

    I would say to reduce its damage (maybe down to +1000% or so, as I think the current is +1400%) and adding health while active or some other utility. With the plugin being as it is now, there doesn't seem to be a perfect way to balance the market gardener.
    I personally don't think MG needs a change from what it is now. It swings extremely slow, which punishes missing and requires full-crit maintenance instead of extra heals to do maximum damage for a melee class.

    Even if a Soldier goes full bulk, he doesn't have enough knockback to prevent hits, nor not get randomly hit. This is excluding bosses that have more melee damage than usual.

    It might have MG'ing become more friendly to less-skilled players who want to learn. It gives a lot more reward for the hassle you have to do to MG correctly.

    It's strong, yeah, but it's not exactly a weapon that's absolute overkill in most situations, unlike the pre-nerf Huo-Long. I can see your point, though.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by JimOfRicefields View Post
    I personally don't think MG needs a change from what it is now. It swings extremely slow, which punishes missing and requires full-crit maintenance instead of extra heals to do maximum damage for a melee class.

    Even if a Soldier goes full bulk, he doesn't have enough knockback to prevent hits, nor not get randomly hit. This is excluding bosses that have more melee damage than usual.

    It might have MG'ing become more friendly to less-skilled players who want to learn. It gives a lot more reward for the hassle you have to do to MG correctly.

    It's strong, yeah, but it's not exactly a weapon that's absolute overkill in most situations, unlike the pre-nerf Huo-Long. I can see your point, though.

    Fair enough, I agree with that. I do still think that we could do with removing the plugin though, as that would be a consistent buff because the plugin damage is usually less than the ~3100 it does with a crit.
    Last edited by SirLolleth; 04-05-2017 at 12:26 PM.

  3. #23
    Regular Ninetails's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirLolleth View Post
    I would say to reduce its damage (maybe down to +1000% or so, as I think the current is +1400%) and adding health while active or some other utility. With the plugin being as it is now, there doesn't seem to be a perfect way to balance the market gardener.
    It's currently +1500% damage bonus

  4. #24
    The plug in started working correctly yesterday and I was getting MGs at the start of the round that did 4966 damage because they scaled correctly. And it was consistent as well. I think if we had someone to look at the plug in and fix it, we could tone down the base damage again because currently the issue with the plug in is that it scales down to the minimum from the start sometimes instead of scaling with the hale's health. And I agree with rice, the damage doesn't need a nerf. It was already toned down and does 1040 on a non-crit hit(not 1400).
    In the end, the Duck Hunt Dog always gets the last laugh... whether or not you shot the damn duck.

  5. #25
    Just tried using the MG in game, and it actually does seem (somewhat) consistent now, cool!

    The next suggestion I would have would be giving the heavy a supportive secondary. Asides from the Huo long, I don't believe the heavy has any positive effects (not counting the Steak and Bar, I'll get to that). I would say changing the Dahlokah's bar to a non melee only supportive weapon might be an idea we look at, because melee heavies almost always use the steak because 50% movement speed is nearly always better than +150 health and 15 hp/s. The only time I've seen the bar ran over the steak is for holiday punch, but I don't think that's enough use for a dedicated melee weapon supplement. Whenever I play heavy, I rarely, if ever, use my secondary. What if we removed the ammo penalty (or even just decreased it to -50%?) and also removing the extra health or health regen while also slowing down the taunt speed (to say that the heavy isn't meant to eat the chocolate; its more for just the passive effects) so that a heavy could use a supportive secondary if he chooses.

    Of course, a good passive effect for heavy may not be a good idea (like the old fists of steel) so I'd like to hear any other suggestions.


    Also, while playing tonight I noticed that if Beep Man hacks a sentry, the original engineer can actually just self destruct the taken sentry. Is that intended? It seems sorta weird.
    Last edited by SirLolleth; 04-05-2017 at 02:39 PM.

  6. #26
    In regards to the Beep man thing, that's just a part of coding you can't override because the game is not designed to have that happen. If we changed the Dahlokahs bar to give 50 health and gave it a fast recharge time, it could work as a general supplement. Sandvich should still be as good or better though.
    In the end, the Duck Hunt Dog always gets the last laugh... whether or not you shot the damn duck.

  7. #27
    I will add Heavy secondaries to my list of things To-Do/Look-At. Most likely won't be many changes until tomorrow or friday as I have a lot of homework tonight.

    As for the MG, I really don't see why it needs to have any form of health regen. There are 2 soldier secondaries that give good health regen, and one that provides good rocket jumping. Adding health regen would make it too strong and redundant. I can look at reworking it again but I'm still not sure I see a good reason to put health regen on it.

    24,000+ ​Player Teleports and rising!

  8. #28
    The MG does not need the health regen. If a player is too lazy to go to a health pack they should equip the mantreads or concheror.
    In the end, the Duck Hunt Dog always gets the last laugh... whether or not you shot the damn duck.

  9. #29
    Threadworm Dragonfist's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirLolleth View Post
    As it stands now, it does 1400 on a non crit. Even with the slower swing speed, the high damage and refilling all of your health on a hit is causing even melee only loadouts to use the market gardener.
    Note to self: Use market gardener for Shovel Knight Loadout. Become unkillable with Battalion's Backup up with every hit and constant healing. Random Crits? No problem. Mummy hitting you? No problem. Saxton Hitting you with Bezerk? I don't give a damn, I'm indestructible!

    In all seriousness, I think this thing will need a nerf. If I'm not wrong, Shovel Knight has just become broken.

    EDIT: Well, it doesnt seem too powerful, but I've been having a bad night for tf2 so far. We will see.
    EDIT #2: Nevermind, its broken as shit , and i love it.
    Last edited by Dragonfist; 04-05-2017 at 06:00 PM.


    Hey! Hey you! If you're working on a project, and you want help, message me! Don't be shy! I'm the guy to ask!

  10. #30
    Okay, lets nerf the battalions all the way into the ground, Switch. Dragon clearly thinks it's too strong. Set it to 1 second of duration and call it good.
    In the end, the Duck Hunt Dog always gets the last laugh... whether or not you shot the damn duck.

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